Ticks

[Jenny]

Sorry to bring up an unpleasant subject - though guess someone must like them - but if you're out birdwatching and around livestock - especially sheep, but deer also have them - check yourself for ticks on your return as well as your dog. This year where I live is proving bad for ticks and although with the deer (separate posting) invading the garden that hasn't helped, they seem to be on the march. Remember, the key thing is to kill the tick - vet's preparation do not work on humans!! I use petroleum jelly or similar substance to coat the body so they can't breathe and die. You can then get them out with tweezers but you must get the mouth parts out - you'll be surprised how many parts of your anatomy you cannot use tweezers on effectively - as I've found out to my cost. If you, or someone doing the job for you, can't get all the mouth parts out get to the doc. Have where you were when you gathered the tick logged; any livestock around and don't take NO for an answer - at best, you'll have a nasty infected spot and a scar - at worst, well, some of these ticks carry very serious and for the susceptible, fatal, diseases. Enjoy your birdwatching, but be safe.

[optrex]

Good advice, thanks Jenny for the reminder

[Shamal]

I expected a thread on twitching ;)
I know plenty of my North American birding friends take tick bites very seriously, the life threatening aspect of them is well publicised over there, notably Lyme disease and Rocky Mountain fever.

I think we're a bit more fortunate in the U.K. in regards to threat to life, although Lyme disease is here, but definitely worth bearing in mind when you are out and about.

[Jenny]

Sorry to disappoint, Shamal :) . We're having a plague of the brutes at the moment and having watched what an ex-neighbour went through with Lymes disease, we're all being very careful. I gather some of the European ticks carry nasty diseases too but somehow we don't seem to take the potential threat seriously.

[Shamal]

Sorry to disappoint, Shamal :) . We're having a plague of the brutes at the moment and having watched what an ex-neighbour went through with Lymes disease, we're all being very careful. I gather some of the European ticks carry nasty diseases too but somehow we don't seem to take the potential threat seriously.

No, I realise that Lyme disease is here, just that compared to the situation in U.S. and many coutries, it is definitely a very uncommon disease. I think there are around 200 cases a year in the U.K. where-as, even considering population differences, the U.S. has a staggering 20,000+ per year.

As you say, it is worth bearing in mind when you are out. Clothing is quite an important factor in helping reduce the chances of tick bites, wearing long sleeved shirts and long trousers helps, but tuck trouser bottoms into socks. Wearing light coloured clothing can help in spotting the little blighters as well. And stick to footpaths, try to keep in the centre and not brush up against foliage.

[Kerry L]

Thanks for the warning, we are about to venture into the Dorset countryside with out German visitor - I don't think her mum would be pleased if she went home with extra stowaway or disease!
Regards, Kerry

[Zildjian285]

No, I realise that Lyme disease is here, just that compared to the situation in U.S. and many coutries, it is definitely a very uncommon disease. I think there are around 200 cases a year in the U.K. where-as, even considering population differences, the U.S. has a staggering 20,000+ per year.

As you say, it is worth bearing in mind when you are out. Clothing is quite an important factor in helping reduce the chances of tick bites, wearing long sleeved shirts and long trousers helps, but tuck trouser bottoms into socks. Wearing light coloured clothing can help in spotting the little blighters as well. And stick to footpaths, try to keep in the centre and not brush up against foliage.
Hi.

I think you will find it is named an uncommon disease in the U.K becuase:
A) Our doctors never consider the diagnosis.

B) Our labs and tests are ridiculous, you need a positive ELISA test (which is negative in 70% of cases) and then you need a positive Western Blot test (which is negative in 40% of cases) - I have never met anyone with a positive ELISA + Western Blot in this country, which is why they are never reported.

There are actually 600 reported cases per year in the U.K. The British Health Protection Agency has said the actual figure is probably at least 1000-2000 cases per year in the U.K. But the specialists in this country, and even an NHS microbiologist who runs one of the testing labs in Scotland said that figure is extremely low and should be multiplied by 10 to take into account all the undaignosed, misdiagnosed and false testing, etc...

I would guess 10,000+ in the U.K each year.

You might want to listen to this, it was on the radio two days ago. It address's the problems with testing, diagnosing - some patients in this country need to sell their houses and move to the U.S just to recieve proper treatment because the doctors in this country refuse to diagnose and treat them without a positive test (which is VERY hard to get!) - that is how bad the situation is here in the U.K.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/noscript.shtml?/radio/aod/scotland_aod.shtml?scotland/feature2_wed

[Jenny]

Hi, Zildjian. Thanks for that link and the info - that's quite shocking! I know it took several months for my friend's diagnosis to come through, despite vast quantities of tests for all sorts of things and it was only as he got steadily worse that, despite his being a farmer, they cottoned on to the problem.

Perhaps we should be consulting vets, not doctors! That's not a totally facetious remark - on an island not a million miles away from this one, it was the vet who saved my life when I contracted a rare bug from an animal! Certainly our vet was very clear on precautions, what reactions I should look out for, etc. What I was surprised to find out is that the vet has, presumably because of the awful infestation we've got, spoken to our Drs, as witness people being asked when they attend surgery (or accompany someone attendig surgery) if they've had a tick bite. Makes you wonder what's going on???! :confused:

Don't want to get into heavies on climate change, but if species (and therefore the diseases they host) are moving northwards, perhaps more of these issues should be raised?

[Zildjian285]

Hi Jenny.

You are absolutely right. I know my vet knows more about tick borne diseases than my doctor does. I can't see the attitude changing here in the U.K for a long time, as the reported cases are so low and the doctors still are not considering the diagnosis.
You can't tell me Lyme disease is endemic all over Europe but not in the U.K? It is very silly.

I expect the majority of people here in Britain will not recognise a tick if they saw one, we seriously need more awareness. I think climate change is playing a role in the increase in cases and soon they won't be able to ignore us anymore.

I actually have the disease myself and it took 3 years to get a diagnosis. I finally started antibiotics 3 weeks ago, It will take at least 6 months before I am feeling better, but at least I know what is wrong and there is treatment. It frustrates me alot because doctors here are not up-to-date with the disease. They are probably not too bad at diagnosing the early stages, providing a rash is there. It's the chronic stages (which can mimmic things like M.E/CFS, MS, ALS, Lupus, etc... which is harder to diagnose.

By the way, if you have any friends with a tick borne disease you can tell them to go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EuroLyme/ for advice, support etc. It is a support group with loads of European sufferers.

http://www.bada-uk.org is a good website for info.

Also, the U.S has 25,000 reported cases, doctors think this is more like 250,000 cases per year - it is very, very bad in the U.S.

[Jenny]

Hi, Zildjian, just caught this before heading for bed - heavy day tomorrow.

Am shocked at the ignorance exposed - how ar e you doing:? Need to go to mainland tomorrow - back late pm - will respond then.

Cheers, Jenny

[Zildjian285]

Hi Jenny.

I am feeling a bit rough because I have only recently started antibiotics and I am currently having a 'herx' reaction, which happeneds when the antibiotics start killing the bugs. I have soo many different symptoms It's quite amazing, it has basically effected my entire body.
I have constant, overwhelming fatigue, weakness, aches and pains, vision problems, loads of neuro problems, heart palpitations - I constantly feel spaced out, dizzy and confused. It is really horrible.
I know some people who have had this disease for over 30 years because they were misdiagnosed. This should not be happening in the 21st century!

I guess at least their is treatment, this will be a long road ahead but I will get there.

[celiar]

Remember, the key thing is to kill the tick - vet's preparation do not work on humans!! I use petroleum jelly or similar substance to coat the body so they can't breathe and die.

Hi Jenny,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. I am a new member with a real love of the outdoors and wildlife but I also have a special interest in ticks and the diseases they carry as I am another 'Lyme' sufferer.

The rest of your post gives some excellent advice and I commend you for that, but can I please just correct you on what you have said in the bit I have quoted from your post above.

The very last thing you should do is to try to smother embedded ticks with anything! Some people use petroleum jelly, some advocate the use of whisky, some use surgical spirits, the list goes on. Many people also try to burn them off. ALL of these things are highly dangerous!

This type of attempt at tick removal results in stress to the tick causing it to regurgitate the contents of it's gut, including any bacterial infection it may be carrying, back into the host, be it a human or an animal.

For that reason you should never try to remove a tick that is embedded with your fingers either. I know you haven't mentioned this, but some people do do it this way, and this is also dangerous. The bacteria from a tick can enter the bloodstream through the tiniest cut on a finger,and can also be transferred through mucous membranes (for instance if you subsequently touched your mouth, or put your finger up your nose after removing a tick this way.....lol).

The best and safest way to remove a tick is to use fine nosed tweezers and grasp the tick as close to the skin of the host as possible in order to ensure removal of the head as well. Use steady even pressure to pull the tick straight out. Then apply antiseptic to the bite site and wash your hands. Obviously if a tick is in a place that is hard for you to reach then you need someone else to help you, a 'tick buddy'!

Zildjian has given you a really good link for in depth information. That of www.bada-uk.org (http://www.bada-uk.org) and if you actually go to:

http://www.bada-uk.org/leaflets.html

Click on 'Outdoor pursuits' leaflet. All the information on the infections ticks carry is there and the section of particular interest on the second page is 'What is the best way to remove a tick?'.

As I say, I hope you don't mind, but if I can prevent one person from contracting this horrendous illness then it will be worth it.

[optrex]

Fantastic post Celiar, thanks for the information and welcome to the forum.

[celiar]

Fantastic post Celiar, thanks for the information and welcome to the forum.

You're very welcome optrex and thanks for the welcome to the forum.

[Jenny]

Celiar

Thanksfor that - am spreading word. Sorry no time to reply right now - computers went down at work and got home half hour ago - meal cooking and got to get bread on. Hope to reply to you and to Ziljuan Friday. Jenny

[celiar]

Celiar

Thanksfor that - am spreading word. Sorry no time to reply right now - computers went down at work and got home half hour ago - meal cooking and got to get bread on. Hope to reply to you and to Ziljuan Friday. Jenny

Look forward to hearing from you again Jenny and glad to help.

[Jenny]

At last my pc seems to be behaving itself, I'd really like a new one but no dosh!

Just when we seemed to be relatively tick free - the sheep next door got out and I had 10 of the darlings enjoying my plentiful grass. They weren't tick free and de-ticking the dog has proved a laborious process, that's having to be done every time I go out with him. At least the vet's stuff kills them, but one's still got to get them off.

The more I hear from you and read up this is a very very scary and unpleasant disease. Just hope that everyone on the forum has taken note of the links. Sincerely hope the treatment is starting to work for you.

[celiar]

Just when we seemed to be relatively tick free - the sheep next door got out and I had 10 of the darlings enjoying my plentiful grass. They weren't tick free and de-ticking the dog has proved a laborious process, that's having to be done every time I go out with him. At least the vet's stuff kills them, but one's still got to get them off.

Have a look at: http://www.bada-uk.org/petpage.html (http://www.bada-uk.org/petpage.html) , it's a new page that has recently been added and promotes the use of garlic to deter ticks from attaching in the first place.

The more I hear from you and read up this is a very very scary and unpleasant disease. Just hope that everyone on the forum has taken note of the links. Sincerely hope the treatment is starting to work for you


I don't wish to scare anyone away from enjoying our wonderful countryside. I just want them to be aware of all the facts so that they can take appropriate action and hopefully never be in the position that I, and many UK Lyme sufferers are.

Thank you for your kind concern. The antibiotics that I have been on are making a definite difference, but it will take a long while, I suspect, since I've been ill for quite a long time with this. I might add too that I have to pay for my treatment privately since NHS knowledge of this problem is woefully inadequate.

[Jenny]

Thanks for that, Celiar! That's very useful - will be sending off for some of the garlic supplement when I get paid next week - bit skint till then! Dog loves garlic - he forgets his good manners and lurks hopefully around the table whenever we're eating garlicky food - he does get occasional, small, left-over treat! It's also interesting that he loves rolling in ramsons (wild garlic) if he gets the chance - so do several other local dogs - and they also nibble at leaves - wonder if this is some latent instinct from way back? On the other hand, it could just be the smell - he's attracted to alliums as well - I now have to grow them in tubs!!!

[celiar]

Thanks for that, Celiar! That's very useful - will be sending off for some of the garlic supplement when I get paid next week - bit skint till then! Dog loves garlic - he forgets his good manners and lurks hopefully around the table whenever we're eating garlicky food - he does get occasional, small, left-over treat! It's also interesting that he loves rolling in ramsons (wild garlic) if he gets the chance - so do several other local dogs - and they also nibble at leaves - wonder if this is some latent instinct from way back? On the other hand, it could just be the smell - he's attracted to alliums as well - I now have to grow them in tubs!!!

Jenny, I am convinced it does have to do with their instincts for knowing what is good for them, and what they need! Because we now keep our pets very much under our control they very often don't have the freedom to access these things as they used to when they were wild. But I think your dog is telling you what he needs and in no uncertain terms!

[Jenny]

It's getting to that time of year when we are all starting to go out and about a bit more in the countryside. Thought it worthwhile bringing this thread up to front page again because the consequences can be horrific.

To Celiar and Zildjian285 - how are you two doing?

Cheers, Jenny

[Jules]

This will probably illustrate the ignorance surrounding Lymes disease; I had never heard of it until I started reading this thread five mins ago! :confused: I'm just wondering how it is possible to determine that the disease is Lymes when the bada website says that it is often confused with me/cfs etc etc. I was diagnosed with me/cfs three years ago so how would I know if it has been misdiagnosed? How would my doctor diagnose it? I do not know that I have ever been bitten by a tick specifically but I spend a lot of time outdoors, live in the country, do often get bitten when gardening, and used to have two dogs, so I suppose the conditions are right.

[celiar]

It's getting to that time of year when we are all starting to go out and about a bit more in the countryside. Thought it worthwhile bringing this thread up to front page again because the consequences can be horrific.

To Celiar and Zildjian285 - how are you two doing?

Cheers, Jenny

Hi Jenny,

Yours is indeed a timely reminder, so thanks for bringing this to our attention again. With the warmer winters we are seeing ticks all year round now, but the season is just about to start when numbers will increase dramatically and we need to be very vigilant.

BADA-UK, the charity I mentioned before, is running a tick prevention week which will start on 1st April, All Fool's Day (you'd be a fool not to take heed.....lol) and the information they are making accessible can be found at www.tickpreventionweek.org (http://www.tickpreventionweek.org) . The site is up and running now, though it is still under construction, as they make their way towards the launch date and the start of tick season. The information given on the site is endorsed by the Chartered Institute for Environmental Health, and is aimed at educating people about the dangers of tick bites, thereby hopefully lessening the numbers of people contracting tick borne diseases.

Their normal website address is www.bada-uk.org (http://www.bada-uk.org) . The site has been completely revamped and added to and is well worth a look or another look. It is an absolute mine of information on ticks, methods for preventing being bitten, correct tick removal (and it is very specific) and tick borne diseases. Their tick removal procedure has also been endorsed by many organisations as you will note from the site.

As I've said before I don't want to scare anyone away from enjoying our wonderful countryside, I just want people to be aware of all the facts, take the appropriate precautions and know what to do if they, or their pets, are unfortunate enough to be bitten by a tick. Not all ticks carry infection but many do, and we need to be aware of that and how we can recognise a possible infection.

Thanks also for enquiring about my personal health. I had to come off antibiotics in order to have a specific blood test and my vast improvement has taken several steps backwards as a result, so I'm not doing too well at the moment. I go to see my Lyme literate doctor (LLMD) next week though and I hope I'll get back on track again soon. This was never going to be easy, given that I have been ill with these infections for so many years. All the more reason to avoid catching them in the first place, or at the very least, recognising the signs and getting swift treatment.

Thanks again Jenny for the opportunity to remind everyone, stay aware and stay well!

Celia

[Jenny]

Hi Celia

Just had a quick look at the bada website and it's well different - the tick awareness info is really good - simple to understand. And the stories are really so sad. Am doing note to Docs about it - though suspect they'll be contacted anyway.

I'm sorry to hear you've had to come off the antibiotics and have taken some steps back but presumably, now the test is done, you can go back on them again and hopefully regain what you've lost. Wish you well.

The dog is off to vet's tomorrow for booster jabs and I'm getting a supply of tick deterrent. My neighbour's dog picked up one earlier in the week, so they are definitely about. As I'll shortly be out and about doing the Eagle Watch I shall definitely be taking precautions - I do not want another session like last year and definitely not what you've had to suffer all these years.

Take care, Jenny

[celiar]

This will probably illustrate the ignorance surrounding Lymes disease; I had never heard of it until I started reading this thread five mins ago! :confused: I'm just wondering how it is possible to determine that the disease is Lymes when the bada website says that it is often confused with me/cfs etc etc. I was diagnosed with me/cfs three years ago so how would I know if it has been misdiagnosed? How would my doctor diagnose it? I do not know that I have ever been bitten by a tick specifically but I spend a lot of time outdoors, live in the country, do often get bitten when gardening, and used to have two dogs, so I suppose the conditions are right.

Hi Jules,

I too was diagnosed with ME/CFS several years ago but, after a vast amount of personal research and private testing, found that what was actually causing my symptoms was Lyme disease/Borreliosis. I have also never been bitten by a tick to my knowledge.

I will answer your questions but at the moment I'm not feeling too good. Will hopefully do it tomorrow.

Celia

[Jules]

Hi Celiar

Sorry to hear that you are not so good at present - I too have good days and bad days so I know exactly where you are coming from. Unfortunately when I have a very good day it's then equalled by an equally bad day - strange but true!

I would be grateful for any info you have (you say you were put on antibiotics?); if it is lyme disease and I have been misdiagnosed, then at least there appears to be some kind of tratment as opposed to me/cfs where there is, at present, no known cure.

Take good care of yourself.

Jules.

[celiar]

Hi Celiar

Sorry to hear that you are not so good at present - I too have good days and bad days so I know exactly where you are coming from. Unfortunately when I have a very good day it's then equalled by an equally bad day - strange but true! [quote]

Not strange at all for those of us suffering with these types of illness. If I have a good day and overdo it because I feel able to do something I then spend the next three days in bed or zonked out on the couch, barely able to lift my hand up to scratch my nose, as a result......lol!

[quote] I would be grateful for any info you have (you say you were put on antibiotics?); if it is lyme disease and I have been misdiagnosed, then at least there appears to be some kind of tratment as opposed to me/cfs where there is, at present, no known cure.

You have all the right opportunities for possibly having contracted it, i.e., spending a lot of time outdoors, living in the country, acknowledging the fact that you have been bitten whilst gardening, keeping dogs and then additionally you are suffering with what you have been told are ME/CFS symptoms. Fairly classic I'd say, but I'm not a doctor, I have to stress that.

Unfortunately the NHS is woefully inept at diagnosing and treating Lyme/Borreliosis so there will be little or no help in that direction. Doctors are taught that they don't need to know much about it because they will probably never see a case of it in their working life.

However, ticks are known to feed on, and be transported by, all manner of wildlife, farm animal, birds, rodents, and domestic pets. Tick bites are becoming more dangerous because currently the various infections they can impart are spreading unabated amongst our native wildlife, birdlife, and domestic pets. Both Borrelia (the bacteria responsible for causing Lyme disease) and Bartonella are already recognised by DEFRA (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) as being endemic to the UK’s canine and feline population, with new bacterial strains being introduced to the UK following the introduction of the PET Passport Scheme.

Ticks can be found in well planted gardens, shrubberies, grassy edges, paddocks and hedgerows. In wooded areas, grasslands, meadows, even in buildings that support a large population of roosting birds or vermin for example, and of course on all manner of family pets, ticks will be found.

As far as human involvement is concerned, according to the Public Health Agency (now called the Health Protection Agency), England, 80% of laboratory confirmed incidences of Lyme disease in humans from 1997 to 2003 were acquired within the UK, with cases being reported from most counties in England and Wales. In Scotland Lyme disease is already endemic.

It’s documented that transmission of Borrelia through the placenta from mother to foetus is possible, and that it can be passed in breast milk from mother to child. It is thought that it may be sexually transmissable too, though not yet proved.

All in all then Lyme disease is not as rare as they would have us believe.

The thing about ME/CFS, I feel, is that it's a bit of 'dustbin' diagnosis. They don't know what causes it, there's no specific treatment, though they can try to treat symptoms, and there's no cure. Even the term ME/CFS is a bit of a cop out because, to my mind, it merely describes symptoms, but what causes those symptoms?

What is absolute FACT is that it is KNOWN that Lyme/Borreliosis is able to mimic ME/CFS along with a whole host of other illnesses. It's known as the 'new great imitator'.

Borrelia is an extremely clever bacteria with the ability to escape detection on conventional testing procedures. See: http://www.bada-uk.org/faq.html (http://www.bada-uk.org/faq.html) where it says: “Borrelia can change form and can be present in more than one form at a time, it is termed as being pleomorphic, which simply means that it is able to change its physical form. It can hide in parts of the human anatomy other than just blood. Borrelia is known to be found deep within tissues and tendons where blood circulation is poor and also within the brain, which has no immune defence system. Termed a ‘stealth pathogen', Borrelia is also known to hide within the immune system cells themselves using the cell membrane as a cloaking device, thus enabling it to evade the production of antibodies. The most common tests in the UK involve the need for antibodies to be present in blood samples. Without the presence of antibodies the test will come back negative.” Not surprising then that NHS fail to detect it in many later stage cases.

It is also hardly surprising that the condition is still considered rare by our medical establishment given that there is only a voluntary monitoring scheme in place, and for all those that do not receive a positive blood test result, then go on to be misdiagnosed as suffering from ME/CFS/FM or some other idiopathic illness presided over by NHS specialists. Currently in the UK there is accepted to be approximately 250,000 people diagnosed with ME/CFS, Scotland has the highest percentage per head of population of Multiple Sclerosis sufferers in the entire civilised world (and co-incidentally Lyme disease is accepted as being endemic there). Lyme disease is known to be able to mimic both these conditions, yet still some doctors remain blissfully unaware of infected ticks within their local area, and of the possible implications for their patients health.

Many people who contract Lyme disease do not develop flu-like symptoms, although it can be one warning indicator, as can excessive fatigue. It is known though that a person may remain totally asymptomatic (symptomless) for anything from weeks or months, to years following an infected bite. It is also recognised that a latent infection can be triggered following a later medical illness, physical injury, or even pregnancy, and when the immune system is under additional strain. English Nature in conjunction with DEFRA state: “If a tick does attach, go to a doctor to have it removed, and to be prescribed preventive drugs (antibiotics) against Lyme disease". Currently there is no other treatment available and the earlier an infection is treated the better the chances of recovery.

So then, what should you do? I can only suggest that if you have any suspicions or concerns regarding your health that you contact BADA-UK through their website: email@bada-uk.org (http://uk.f319.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=email@bada-uk.org) . Whilst the NHS won't be able to help you there are private doctors in the UK with vast knowledge of Lyme/Borreliosis, and testing procedures that can detect it. Those doctors will also recommend treatment. That's how I found out that I have Borreliosis and in fact co-infections too and how I started on the antibiotic protocol. If you wish to contact me privately, please do. I think I'm right in saying that can be done through the member's list. Meanwhile, good luck!

The reason I keep mentioning BADA-UK, and I make no apologies about that, is because they are a UK (non-profit) charity who are doing their utmost to raise awareness of the dangers of tick bites and to offer impartial advice to those who think they may be infected. They produce accurate, up to date, no nonsense, non-sensationalist free information to all those at risk. The majority of their volunteers are sufferers themselves so they know the misery of these illnesses.

I must reiterate here that I LOVE the British countryside, and being ill with this disease does not stop me going out there and enjoying it as I always have, BUT I now take sensible precautions to minimise the chances of being bitten by ticks.

Finally if you are unfortunate enough to be bitten please take note of the following:

If you stress a tick by smothering it with butter, vaseline, whisky, surgical spirits or anything else, it suffocates it. It will eventually drop off, but because it is being stressed it will first regurgitate the contents of it's gut, together with any infectious organisms it may be carrying, back into its host, whether that be human or animal. Its survival instinct, when under stress, is to make itself small in order to make its escape easier, and to do this it vomits the contents of its stomach. Believe me you do not want that going back into you or your pet! Trying to burn them off with a cigarette or something similar has the same effect.

People should also NEVER use their fingers to try to pull a tick off. Squeezing a tick will have the same effect as trying to smother it, and if your fingers are in the vicinity when it regurgitates the contents of its stomach, bacteria can enter through the tiniest cut you may have, or it can be transferred by mucous membranes if you were to touch your mouth or stick your finger up your nose afterwards!

The safest way to remove embedded ticks is to use fine long-nosed tweezers. Grasp the tick as close to the hosts skin as possible and pull upwards with steady even pressure. Or use a bespoke Tick Twister which is even easier. These methods are far less liable to make the tick 'panic'.

See: http://www.tickpreventionweek.org/remove/ for good graphic instructions on removing ticks with tweezers and http://www.bada-uk.org/merchandise.html for bespoke tick removal tools.

[Jules]

Hi Celiar

Thanks for the info - like I have said before, this is all entirely new to me. And what a lot of info! I will investigate the leads you have given me although why these things can't be easy to sort out beats me. When you are feeling less than 100%, it would be really nice if diagnosis and treatment could at least be easy to find!

As for the strangeness I spoke of, I was really referring to the reaction of NHS doctors rather than to sufferers. It has become such a familiar pattern of my life now that I'm beginning to wonder whether I've always felt like this! Am now taking Co-enzyme Q10 which I get from Holland & Barratt; of all the things I have tried over last 3 years, this is the only thing which seems to have made a real difference. But if, like you said, I am only attacking the symptoms then it is not a real cure.

Many thanks again. Take care.

Jules.

[Jenny]

Celiar

Have emailed brief mention to our local island magazine (no reply yet but will push) because they publish first of month - will also go for our monthly newspaper but I'm too late to contact for tick awareness week.

Was talking to my 86 year old Mum about this and in all the years she had dogs and was out in the countryside, plus when I was young and did same, we never had tick problems. My 97 year old Dad who died last year had had max exposure to rodents and pests of all types in his home as a child.

Was this because of pesticides like DDT? Was it because as kids we were forever cutting ourselves and gaining some kind of immunity (I have a big problem in that I cannot be given anti-tetanus!) or what? My child was also brought up in the countryside and yes, I was careful (rats/mice very prevalent) but didn't scream for antibiotics on every occasion as my fellow mums did. Co-indentally, all my neighbours' children born three months either side of my child's dob have asthma (they're no smoking households), got antibiotics at every twitch of illness and lived in centrally heated houses - we just got cold!. Are we simply too squeaky clean - and is common sense being subsumed by science.

I don't mean this in cases like yourself, Jules and Zildjuan (hope he's ok) but in normal approaches to life? Know you can't give me the answers and have no issues about antibiotics where they can do good, but have we forgotten common sense?
Take care, Jenny

[celiar]

Jenny,

I have to say that I think we do live too cleanly these days and that superbugs are evolving as a result.

Having said that though, the percentage of infected ticks has grown over the years and bugs that were once confined to other areas of Europe are now present here. We therefore have no immunity to them. In addition, since the 1970's, antibiotics in animal feed have had a direct route into our system, until they were banned quite recently, which probably has impacted on our ability to deal with certain resistant bugs.

I agree with you that generally people are too quick to ask for antibiotics for the common cold or other minor illnesses, but with tick borne diseases (TBD's), if it is left too long, the infection might not be controlled before irreversible damage has been done.

Celia

[Zildjian285]

Hi!

I completely forgot about this thread but I managed to find it while searching through Google!
The info Celiar has posted is very good and I agree BADA-UK is a fantastic website for info.
I have not been doing too bad. I have been on antibiotics now for about 8 months or so, the first 6 months I made some very good improvements and had some excellent days. Last month I went away on holiday for 3 days and had an excellent time, I couldn't of even thought about going on holiday this time last year - so I have definitely improved quite a bit.
I do still have a long way to go and worryingly in the last 2 weeks I have felt really terrible again with overwhelming fatigue, vertigo, pains, visual problems, heart palpitations, panic attacks, brain fog, inflammation in joints, etc, etc, etc.
I think this could be a herx, but it's hard to tell.
I have a consultation with my LLMD (Lyme literate medical doctor) in about 10 days and I think he will add/change my antibiotics (this is often needed to target all the different forms and life cycles of the bacteria).
I think a change of treatment will push my recovery even further.

Thanks for your concern,
Chris (Zildjian).

[Jenny]

Chris,

It's good to hear how you've been doing - even though you've had some horrendous symptons of late. Hopefully a change in medication will help. You and Celiar have done so much to publicize the issues of Lyme and related tickborne diseases you two deserve a medal - I mean it.

Where I live, ticks are even worse this year and started at least a month earlier - son picked up five camping the other night on the short machair land grass! And I can't count the number I've removed from our dog. In short, looks like a bad tick year and everyone has to be very careful.

Take care and let us know how you're getting on, Jenny